Rogue likes/Lites

Welcome to plug in for Player 4 where you the viewer are the

player 4 and this who is episode 10 AM.

I the viewer. You can be.

Wow. Who also wants to join this

podcast and play some Mark anyway?

How are you, Brandon? I'm being replaced.

Well, you were the well, you wanted to be a viewer.

You want to be a host or a viewer.

Send in your resume to plug in for player4.gmail.com.

We don't care about your name. Your name's gonna be Mark.

We will call you Mark. Hello, new Mark.

Jesus Christ. I am doing good.

What about you, other Mark? That is good other mark.

Still got some kind of issues with breathing right now I'm not

sure what's going on. Kind of coughing a lot.

Or didn't. It's the last recording.

Maybe you need deodorized? My lungs do.

Coat in your lungs and some deodorant.

Man fuck me. God damn trying to hack up a

lung. What have, what have we been

playing recently? I know I've been playing.

I actually got back into Security Breach this last

weekend. Not we got week.

I didn't play it for a year and a half on on a whim.

No reason whatsoever. Just booted it up.

No thought into it. Booted up security breach I

finished on. The last I stopped at was the

daycare. That's not too far into the game

by any means. It pissed me off and I just

stopped playing. Came back to it, finished it,

finished everything 100%. That's all your favorite

references too. Yeah, it is.

It's it's a, it's a security. Alert.

Security alert. I like his Brandon said

something once he said something.

You know what? That's actually pretty funny.

It's so funny, it is, it is so good.

Need to add it to the discord. Yes, you do.

Well, for me, I can say that Jack and I have been dragging

Braid and kicking and screaming back into Destiny too.

Oh, that's. Right.

How's that going, Brandon? Good, I want to play the the the

edge of fate now. Yeah, we took us a year, but we

finally got paraded through the Final Shape campaign.

All you see, instead of Edge of Fate I cast, not Microsoft

magically gathering Edge of Eternity is on you.

Yeah, there it is. We're going from edging feet to

edging eternity. The eternal edge.

Damn, that is so. That.

Is so smart. Well, apparently we're going to

be doing that, I think this weekend, Mark.

Edging. Yeah, edging.

I had to talk to my wife. I was, I didn't.

Hear her, Hey, she said. We can do it.

So. Oh, OK, well.

Yeah, I called her up. Actually.

I can join too. We talked for several.

Live stream. Oh, you know, Emma said that I

guess we're going to. You guys are going to finish

your campaign. Yeah.

Get you pretty close, Yeah. And then she said we're gonna

drag you. Yeah, like.

All right, look, Jacks, Jack tells me at the end of the new

raid, there's a biblically accurate Angel boss.

Oh, that's right, you were talking about.

Yeah, yeah. I'm like Brandon, we had to

experience this. And then I'll, I'll just put

this on the podcast cuz I'm sure ammo will probably listen to

this at some point. Thank you for getting me that

the DLC for Destiny 2 fate. Thank you.

Very nice. A little shout out to.

My wife, but yeah, that's yeah, that's what we've been doing.

I'm I'm definitely like pretty hyped to go through educate

because I'm starting to get that little bit of feeling back with

destiny. Yeah, like it's not big, but

it's Oh no, it, it, it. It really shouldn't be, but it's

it's nice to kind of just. It's coming back, yeah.

You're going to hit me with. Oh.

My God, that was like. Horror.

But yeah, I. Mean I wasn't thinking about it,

but now that you said something. Bonk, bonk bonk we need.

Him. Comedic relief.

Other Ethan. Other anyway so.

After my rod. OK, well he's talking about that

after Shut the fuck up after I finished Security Breach.

I really haven't been playing anything it.

Needs to breathe. No, that's why I'm that's why

I'm talking right now pretty So after after 100% Security

Breach, which I think was my 39th perfect game on Steam, I

really haven't been playing much There's games that I want to get

to, but I just haven't like pulled the trigger on playing.

Yeah. Been playing honestly actually

actually I kind of got back into Peglin which leads us into the

topic for today is rogue likes and or rogue lights.

There is a difference there. You want to say something, You

want to get it out. He's still choking on his words

when I was hitting him, I think. He's making such a high pitch,

we can't hear it. He has such a beautiful voice.

He does not have a beautiful voice, all right.

He, well, he got broken, right? Were you really waiting 5

minutes for that? Just about, yes.

Anyway, I would like to keep this keep this on track.

No, we're going to derail. No, you're not.

Shut up. We're on the train to hell,

motherfucker. Speaking of train, Monster

Train, No, we've already talked. We are getting to talk about us.

We're going. To get we are going to get to

that, but rogue legs. And or easy passing.

Away and or rogue shut up. Again.

Please. The crazy trains are even

derailed, Sir. All right, the.

Conductor. He's not shutting up.

I'll hit you with my I'm. Kind of getting pissed honestly.

OK, I'll stop. But yeah, rogue likes and or

rogue lights, there are many different kinds out there.

And this last year and maybe even 2 years, I've been noticing

A trend where there's just more and more coming out for the most

niche like combinations. Like I wouldn't be surprised if

there's a wrestling rogue like to come up pretty soon because

there's been a hockey rogue like, there's been a piggle

rogue like, there's been like pachinko rogue like as well.

There's a lot of weird rogue lakes out there right now.

I did not know this. Oh, I did not know.

This is so far up your alley, I feel like you're going to be

kind of leading this episode. I mean, there's.

Because I this is the hearing sports rogue likes is new to me.

Yeah, there's, I mean, there's just so many rogue you can see

that you can look at this list right here.

And this is not even half of the rogue likes that I have on

Steam. But let's get into the different

types that I have written out. There's probably more, way more

than I could even think of getting into.

But the first one I have up is Deck Builder.

Now you guys can ask questions, you guys can bring up whatever

rogue likes that you've played, but this is stuff like Monster

Train where I have gone into detail about this game in a

previous thing. Something similar is Slay the

Spire. You have a deck, you draw

courage, you have energy and you can deal damage per turn.

You have Peglin even though it is a Peggle roguelike you still

which deals with like tossing balls down a board and you steal

deal with a deck of these orbs and they every single time you

reload they shuffle in a random order or even go into a battle

and Astria 6 sided oracles. This is kind of a subset

roguelike. There's a bunch of dice

roguelikes out there, but this one is also a kind of AI think

it's a deck builder because you draw a certain amount of dice

each turn and dice can have different faces and do different

effects with different characters.

I've heard of like like dice. Yeah, 'cause another dice rogue

like is Dicey Dungeons. Yeah, I guess that's a deck

builder actually too, now I think about it.

Yeah, I remember you playing that for like a brief moment.

Yeah, there's, there's six different characters dice with

and you roll dice and depending on if you have evens odds you

have higher than 3, lower than three or like this can only be

6. You can do different effects or

different damages or debuffs, buffs, get an extra dice even.

There's a lot of stuff that you can do.

And yeah, that, but I mean, did you guys have any questions

about any of these or played any any any experiences or even what

you've seen from what I've played?

Now slave the Spire, I know that is a card game.

Is that also a video game as well?

Yes, so latest buyer originally started off as a rogue.

Let's see 'cause there is a difference.

Rogue like is similar to rogue where each run is different.

Rogue light has meta progression and that is more so a rogue like

light. No, like, yeah, like where?

Because there's really no meta progression, there's ascension

levels. But yeah, started off as a video

game and then there was a Kickstarter for the board game,

which can actually go up to four players at once, go up 1 to 4,

surprisingly, which you wouldn't think so because the game is A1

player game. Yeah.

Yeah, but yeah, now they have actually coming out.

Might already be out. Slay the Spider 2.

Actually I don't think it's out. Might be mixing this out.

Yeah, I might be mixing that with Monster Train too, which I

kind of want to try. The generating monster train is

my favorite and what I've from what I've seen, Monster Train 2

is even better. There's instead there's there's

the five original clans plus five more clans.

So there's more combinations now you right.

Currently at the loss of the Wormkin DLC clan from the first

game, but the developers have hinted that they're gonna bring

back a clan that's missing or some mysterious words that they

said referencing a clan. And a lot of people think it's

going to be the DLC clan from Monster Train 1, the Wormkin.

Now you, you mentioned just a moment ago about games being

rogue like kind of like a rogue is that is that kind of like a

precursor game to the genre, kind of like, you know,

Metroidvania was kind of given a label given to games that were

kind of like Metro, the original Metroids.

Yes. So Rogue, I haven't played it

personally, but from what I know is it was a game where you think

like Pac-Man, you just start it up, play it, and you get

upgrades and whatnot as you play, but as soon as you die,

all those upgrades go away and you just start again.

You get new upgrades, whatever. OK, so that's Rogue like with

AK. So that's kind of like where the

the genre spawns from. Yes, because like as in similar,

it's similar to Rogue. But then there's Light, which is

like similar but a little bit more to it.

So this could be Monster Train and Slay the Spire, This could

be Penguin 'cause as you play you can unlock stuff for the

beginning of the game, like before you even start, like as

you like. For example, Monster Train and

Slay the Spire. As you play certain clans in

Monster Train, you level them up and you get access to new cards.

Same thing with Slay the Spire, you get access to new cards for

specific characters as you play those characters.

So. Would Rotato fall under lights

then? Because you're kind of unlocking

new characters as you play well as you succeed.

I feel like it would be lights, but I could also see it as light

considering it doesn't. I would say like light because

you're unlocking new characters. There are four different ways to

play. You don't really unlock items

within the game. Yeah, which is what lights are

about. Yeah.

Maybe it would. Maybe it would be more.

That's what I'm thinking. Like it's, it's kind of, I could

see the other way. It's like in between you're.

Kind of right. For one, it sounds like rogue

like is you lose all progress, you lose all.

Progress everything. You lose everything.

Light you have met upgrades like you could have 10% more health

or you could you know 3-3 more attacks.

Before having down, you're locking things yes, to be used.

Later, right, you get further and further.

Yeah, or like when you go to heal, you heal 15 more health.

Yeah. Yeah.

That that, stuff like that. It makes sense, yeah.

And that is light with ATT. Light versus like?

Baby guys don't have any more and we're gonna move on to like

the shooter slash bullet hell kind of rogue likes slash lights

my favorites like I. Like my Bullet Hills?

Honestly I do love a good bullet hell in the shooter but some of

these are axolotl robo quests. Enter the Gungeon, which

honestly that's like a top five right there is Enter the

Gungeon. It's like basically genre when

you think it's kind of Binding of Isaac, which is another

issue. I I'm surprised you didn't put

that. On I me too.

Honestly, yeah, me too. But yeah, I remember how.

Much You played Biting of Isaac back in high school.

I mean, back when I played in high school, that's kind of when

it was his most popular, yeah. Yeah.

By a nuclear throne. That's so.

I don't dare touch that one because that one is hard as

shit. You think Enter the Dungeness,

have you? No, you haven't played Enter.

That's right, but kind of makes me happy.

I would say if I tried to play and beat Roboquest on Guardian 4

now, I would have an easier time beating it than I would a

Nuclear Throne. And even though I lost all that

skill, I would have an easier time beating Robo Quest than I

would have Nuclear Thrown. Why is nuclear thrown so hard?

It's I could yes, it's a blow. I could just be bad at it but so

it has it has a set area with enemies like like Axolotl.

OK. You can kind of shoot out of

bounds, but you have to break the blocks.

So explosives around these and there's not much wiggle room.

OK anyway, so it doesn't really matter, but it's just kind of

how the areas are set up. Plus once you get into the later

levels the enemies get really hard to deal with and just they

could be a pain in the ass. Plus I believe weapons.

It's been a while since I played this, I could get this wrong.

I believe once you run out of bullet, out of ammo with a

weapon, it's gone. You have to basically find it

and pick it up again. I.

Could be wrong about that. You might be able to refill it,

but I feel that's right. OK.

Would would Cuphead fit under this category or is that?

No, that's that's. More of a different genre.

No, that's that's like a Bosch rush that's slash E platformer.

Yeah, it's it's not a real. Quick.

No, not at all. OK, it's a hard game, it is, but

it's. Fun.

I understood Cuphead is it's hard and it's a bullet hell.

Yes, that's what it is. Considered that, yeah.

It seems like from how you guys are explaining things, it's it's

something different entirely. It's not a bullet hole in the

sense of a rogue light, no. Like yeah, no, it's it's own

thing. OK, it's very fun game though.

It's a. It is fun and I love.

Very hard. I love the fucking art.

And I still want to play it together.

It took me 3 days to get patch past fire match.

No, what's the dragon called? Whatever, whatever the dragon is

the three headed dragon it took. Me.

Bitch it took me 3 days, not like over the course of three

days to get past that boss in specific, yes Oh my God he was

hard. But it it's.

Fuck. But it's a good it.

Is hard it that that's it makes The reason I played it over the

course of three days is because it made me want to surmount the

odds and beat the fuck out of a. Dude's face.

It's a sadistic herd. Yes, it.

Pretty much, yeah. Masochistic herd.

Yeah. Yep, it's I just, it's just the

the thing with that game is it's art style I fucking love.

It does look beautiful I. It's all hand drawn.

It is all hand drawn, Yes, everything in the game, from the

projectiles to the bosses themselves.

Yeah, even the backgrounds. The time that add to a Pagan?

Oh my God dude. Like I'm surprised there's the.

Generations right too. Oh yeah.

Yeah, 'cause it's supposed to be a 1930s.

Twenties, 30s style. My.

Kind of kind of based loose off of Steamboat Willy style.

Yeah, it's Rubber House. Yeah, and all that.

Yeah. Robo Quest though, really good.

It is really fun. It can get hard once you get

like halfway, halfway through the game, like once you hit

fields, which is the third area, the third normal area that you

would usually find. That's when a difficult.

That's when you find out if you're ready or not.

Yeah. And dear God it sucks when

you're not at the game only. So the first area is more often

than not if you're starting from base Oasis, yes.

And then actually, no, I think it's the regular area leading

into Oasis and then after that it's fields.

Yes. Fields is certainly a difficulty

spike. It's test.

You it very much so is and it that's when like newer enemies

come into play, not just more of the more of the same come into

play, it's gonna be more different enemies.

Like this time you have snipers, you have guys flying at you, you

have the big guy at the end of the area that shoots at you.

Yep, Yep, asshole. Oh my God.

Yeah, no, that's. That was that was that arena

based robot shooter, you guys? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I know that that level you have fields.

Yeah, definitely tests to see if you're ready to keep going.

And then the secondary third area like fields, the adjacent 1

is Aqua Ducks, Aqua Aqua station.

That's what it even harder. Yeah, even harder.

I would say akin to energy, yes. Which is the 4th area.

Which is fucking hard. Yep.

Like. Cuz there's even more.

There's moving Gatling turrets. Yeah, there's.

There's just so much. Shit.

Yeah, that you have to keep track of and not get fucked like

it's. There's there are some areas in

that game where I have outright refused to even attempt on on

higher difficulties, like even hard.

There's one where the entire, like pretty much the entire

ground is acid and there's like little tiny squares you have to

jump onto while you're fighting these enemies, mind you, so

there's minimal ground space to fight on.

Yeah, no, I'm good. Yeah, that's, I mean, it makes

sense, you know, if you're playing on a hard like a harder

difficulty. But you exist.

But it's also like that's that's a secret kind of area.

OK, that. This is not some place you would

go for a normal progression. OK.

OK, that makes sense. That's fine.

But I still refuse to go to an harder.

Well, yeah, and you can, you could just not go to it, right.

And so like, yeah, yeah, no, that's cool.

I prefer to face the flames head on.

You sadistic zombie. I mean I I played Jedi Survivor

the first time playing through and I'm grandmaster difficulty.

Fair enough. You just love your balls fucking

curb stop, don't you buddy? I mean, the game got

significantly easier when I stumbled upon the the hidden

raincore fight and got the ability to break people's

guards, but it still was very rough.

I bet beating ring core was an ass.

It was Oh my. God, it's ass to begin with.

I'm grandmaster. I'm not playing the game over

again because I got really frustrated with the.

No doubt. The DM mini game but.

I'll try. You were talking about that?

At least from my experience playing on a grandmaster, every

hit for bit was a one hit kill. Yeah.

Fuck, you had to fight it perfectly.

Yeah. It took me like a week to do it

because I was like Jesus. Christ.

Wow, I could see it. Yeah.

I mean, having going running around from our old project that

we used to work on together and and trying to find time to work

on that was difficult enough, but God.

Yeah, yeah. I wasn't ready for it.

I always walked in. I was like, ah, that's a fucking

rink. And I'm like, Oh yeah, hey, it's

also a very small room that I could barely maneuver around.

I've got perfect. I've gotten to that.

Point guys, I have an idea. I I haven't even played the game

for like in 40 minutes. I'm still in the first hour.

Oh, really? Yeah, that's how early.

Oh. That's how early you can.

Fight this thing. I I've gone through.

It like you get. You, I don't know what you're

talking about. I'm just using context clues of

this is ass. That's my context clues, yeah.

You you get to the first main he's.

Dying. He just died.

He didn't see his soul going up right now.

You unlocked the the main hub of the game and then you just get a

quest from some random lady saying, Oh yeah, all my minor

friends, they're they're down in the mind and I, I need to know

if they're OK. And you're like, OK, cool.

Very, very start of the game. Very mindful you're a demure.

Demure. You're just outside of the first

stretch of narrative beginnings to the game where the game's

like now. Right now you can actually start

explore your round and figuring out the game and you get this

quest. You're like OK cool.

You go into The Cave and you're like, oh fuck, that's rancor.

Yeah, that sucked. That fight sucked.

Oh. Sounds sounds like it.

Don't know what you're talking, but it sounds like it.

I might have to look it up just to get some context, and that's

if I remember, yeah. It's not that important.

It's not that important, it's just I bet I've been thrown into

the fire. You weren't just thrown in the

fire, you were just, you were thrown in a God damn of it.

You were cooked, my guy. Like this is.

Fun from all. Sides Chad, am I cooked?

You, you weren't just screwed, dude.

And I knew from Dennis now I was like, well, I'm, I'm gonna have

a rough time with this, all right?

That was like perfect. That was like perfect timing.

Was this before or during this episode that you said you want

to try At Risk of Rain 2 again? Because me and Jack own it on

PC. Do you have it on PC?

Yeah, I got it on PC. We could all play together.

It's it's actually really fun. Is it 4 player?

Yes, it actually is. I'll join in.

Yeah, I mean, I I don't mind trying it.

I'll be making jokes about it though.

I'll be like, all right, weather man, what's the risk?

Of rain but yeah, that's that's it's a really fun game because

as you play OK, I'll put it this way.

The achievements that you see on Steam and or Xbox and or

whatever system you play on every single time you unlock

something, it's tied to an achievement.

So if you unlock an ability on a character, that's an

achievement. If you unlock an item that you

can find in the world, that's an achievement.

If you even even a skin or a character in general, getting a

character that's that's an achievement.

So like pretty much as you play on unlock achievements, you will

find different things that you can use.

Like there's like 2 bracelets, there's a fire and an ice

bracelet where if you deal so much damage, then it procs and

deals a bunch of damage in a large area.

OK and you don't find those until you find the hidden area.

And one of the things plus there's also I think they're

glyphs. No, that doesn't sound right.

But basically there's like tablets you can find around each

of these areas that have like a three by three grid of symbols.

It's like a, a triangle, a circle, a square and a like just

an outline of a diamond. And you're like, well, what is

this tablet for? And you're looking through all

these areas, you're finding all these different tablets and

these different patterns. You're like, what are they?

What are these for? I see them.

And there must, must be some use of these patterns that I'm

seeing. But then you in one of the

levels, you finally find it and you're like, oh, oh, I can start

putting these in. And then you start and then you

do trials. And within those trials, you

face challenges with that rune glyph, whatever it's called

active. OK, And it could be from like

the glass one. You'll deal three times damage,

but you have one health. Or hey, buddy, every single time

you go into a new area, change your character.

Oh wow. Oh God, that would fuck with me

so hard. Yeah.

But it can also be as simple as, hey, you see all these items

that you're unlocking. Whenever you open a chest, you

get to pick your item. Whenever an item drops an enemy,

you get to pick that. There is equipables.

You get to pick your equipable. Now, do you have a little bit on

like equipable slots or? You can have one equipment.

OK, OK. That's it.

But you can. Everything else is free game.

OK. And some of these builds can

get, well, not even build just once you get us like enough of

items, it can get pretty chaotic.

And there's recyclers so you can return.

You can turn stuff into scrap and then you can use scrap at

printers. Like let's say there's a sickle.

No, like I'm not even going to get into details.

So there's just a sickle. It does something you can you,

if you find a a recycler, you can turn your items that you

have into scrap that you're like, I don't really need this.

So you have two of it. You make 2 scrap.

So then you can go to a printer of the same rarity, mind you,

because if you have like a green item, you turn it to scrap, it's

green scrap. So now you can use a green

printer to print this specific item.

Oh, I need that. Let me print that and now I can

get to that item or however much scrap you have.

And so you can kind of like shape your build if you the

other like there's, there's a lot of stuff to learn in risk of

rain too. Yeah, it seems like it, yeah.

Like even from like characters and you can like you can like

engineer, you can depending on which turret you take, you can

change your bill as well. Those are stationary turrets.

And then there's movement turrets.

And usually with the engineer, it's the the fungus.

I'm sure you've seen it, Mark, where it's like.

I've seen the memes, yeah. We have no clue what they mean.

Yeah, it's like, look at this fungus.

It's like I want that fungus, but look at all the fungus you

have. You're ruining the economy or

however it goes. Yeah, the.

Economy I I I'm just. Circumfused I'm like what?

So basically that item as long as you stand still, you heal.

Oh, OK, so his turrets, his standing still turrets, they

also get the items that you have.

Oh, OK, so you put down those turrets since they can't move,

they activate the fungus. And so now you have an area

where you can look at basically a safe zone.

And the more fungus you have, the not only the bigger the area

you heal in. The stronger the.

Effect. Yes, the stronger the effect.

Some items are linear, some items are exponential.

I think most are linear, but yeah, just there's a lot of fun

to be had in that game, plus the DLC as well.

OK. Yeah, the two DLCS add items and

characters. Let's see if I got those DLCS

or. Not I mean if now we can just

play and there's just a lot to explore in the base game itself.

You can even find hidden bosses. OK.

I mean, I think we might need to might need to play this.

Yeah, like that's pretty much all I have for the shooter slash

bullet hell section going on to the horde.

Horde survivor section is. I only have two written down but

there's a lot of this Brotato and Vampire survivors.

Brotato, the only thing on the list I've actually played.

Yeah. Outside of like a board game?

Mark loves to fuck the economy. Oh my God.

I play entrepreneur. It's.

Funny. Take it away, Mark.

What does the entrepreneur do? What?

How does he work? What?

So Entrepreneur gives you a bonus to harvesting, which is

the amount of material that you pick up at the end of the round.

Basically currency. Yeah, basically currency and you

use that to buy items and weapons and gear to help you

going forward. So the entrepreneur gets a bonus

towards every additional point in harvesting.

And how I like to play it is that I just overload on

harvesting and luck. What luck does is it gives you

rare and much more powerful items in the shop to the point

of we're sitting for like 3 to 5 minutes is I'm just spending

money in the shop, just heavy field days just trying to buy as

much as I can. Shop is the end game for

entrepreneur, Yeah. It it it, it is where we will

spend most of the time because I the shop becomes the main game

at that point. Look, I think the final wave has

60 or 80 seconds and you spend like 3 or 4, maybe 5 minutes in

the shop. Well, The thing is with with the

entrepreneur, you do not keep your resources in between

rounds. That's why he has a bonus to

harvesting. Yeah.

So at the end of the round, here's your money.

Here's your money. I have to spend it because I

don't get to save it, which is why I I, I as I'm getting more

and more and more coins, I'm just like, well, time to throw

them into random fuck off whatever I can pick up.

Yeah, pretty much. It starts breaking the game

because you and towards the end of the actual game you start

coming back with like 4000 materials, 5000 materials.

I think one time we got up to 10,000 if I was.

If I I couldn't tell you I was I was zoned down one on my phone

fair until like OK guys I'm done like oh cool.

I completely pick like frantically picks up controller

for 60 seconds and. Then another 5 minutes later.

But I know every, every other character has a niche.

So I'd be like, there's Gollum where they have a lot of maximum

health and they get healed. Yeah, and they get maximum

health bonuses, but they can't heal during the round in any

way, shape or form. So no region, no fruits that can

heal you? No.

Yeah, no, no life steal, no chute, no heal turrets, none of

that stuff. But then there's also Bully,

which has no can't have any weapons, can't deal any damage

except by literally running into enemies, which enemies deal

contact damage. But yeah, but so do you.

You do explosion damage equal to three times the total of

engineering. I think Engineering ranged in

melee damage I. Think something like.

That I think so. Because I was playing, I was

playing as a bully. I love that man.

Just. Fucking yeah, but you also have

you also start with a shit load of regeneration.

And you can build on it. Yes, you still can build on it

and basically you got to balance running into the enemies.

Again, the enemies deal contact damage.

They got to balance your health with running into these enemies.

Because some of them can take such a big chunk that you have

to be here. Right.

That your your health regeneration may not be able to

compensate. And you also got to think about

because there's a stat called dodge which is a percent chance

to dodge an attack meaning taking no damage.

But with bully that means you dodge an attack AKA contact

damage. You also miss an opportunity to

deal damage. Yeah, so as well.

It's probably best not to have that.

Yeah. Or you.

Know well that that's where you put in more points to armor and

then to Max health right coming to get that.

Yeah, at that point. Yeah, like at first you'd be

like, oh, dodge. I can dodge, but I'm not dealing

damage. Now I'm not doing anything but

just. You're just there.

Yeah, you're just there. You're just hanging out.

Or one of my favorite characters, the baby.

So the baby. Most characters can only have 6

weapons. Most the baby hold 12.

Yeah, but I think they have to have different weapons.

I think I think it's different. Like they they can have no no

duplicates but the baby starts out so also when you you can

level up and you can get stat upgrades.

The baby starts off with one items, 1 weapon slot.

Every level up they get a weapons slot.

No stat upgrades. So I just take the stick and the

stick deals more damage per stick you have.

So I'm a tree bitch. I'm a tree and I'm smacking

potato sprouting. Yeah, soil bar.

Where's the fucking soil? Jesus Christ.

Man, this is this is one of the more content heavy games in

terms of like content for what there is, because there's just

so many characters that there's so many different ways to play

it, even though you don't unlock any new item.

Well, no, I actually do unlock new items.

That's right, achievements unlock new items and new

characters as well. Yes, yes.

Because there's, there's just some items that like I think, I

think I unlocked an item for killing the boss within 15

seconds, which I did with the baby.

I was like, oh, cool, here's an item that deals more damage to

bosses and elites. And I just with the with all the

sticks I have. You went to leading fucking

bosses. It's like my God you just see

him wither away with a sad face because he just got fucked.

Like what is? This.

It's really hard to kill a boss in that game.

Yes, it is really hard in Bro Tato.

But you somehow did it. I mean, to be fair with a stick

and you deal with more damage per stick you have plus the

upgrades of the weapons 123 and four tears, you deal more damage

with the tears individual T Yeah.

So therefore you deal more damage with more stick you have

versus tears. And yeah, it gets it gets a lot.

Yeah, you beat them with a dead tree.

What? Stick, stick.

Stick. Stick.

That's a marshmallow. On a stick.

On a stick. Oh, he's so fucking sad, but the

little fire's happy. Man, I'm sure there's plenty

more horn survivals out there. More than one The two I have on

this list, yes, the next. Before we move on, what was?

That one that we played on the on the Xbox with the zombies,

zombie house or. Oh, Zombie estate two, Yeah.

Let me play that. Yeah.

That's fun. Would that be a rogue like?

I mean, I think it's. Technically it is.

You can unlock stuff. I feel like that's more of like

a just a horde survivor in general.

Like, yeah, you get points at the end of a game and you can

unlock characters and hats, which are the only two things

you can unlock. The rest is just, hey, survive

this wave, get money, buy weapons, upgrade them.

I I I guess it's it is. Kind of it's kind of kind.

Of yeah, yeah, it's, I could see, I can see an argument,

'cause there's also like there's like 17 or so different types of

enemies in the game, but only a certain amount.

Can it show up? Yes, in a run.

Yes. But if we're now, if we're done,

we can move on to the next. Vampire Survivors.

Yeah, I think we're good. Do you want to talk about?

It's Oh God, talk about. It's fun.

I don't have a lot to say about it, but.

It is fun. It's nothing's balanced.

The creator even said that. Oh yeah, no, it's nothing is

like, but I, I remember my first time playing it, it's my brother

was like, dude, when you play this, you're going to get

addicted to it. And I'm like, fuck, is that so?

And yeah, yeah, I remember him coming down downstairs in my

room and I think I was like an like an hour or two in and I

just, I kept going. I could not fucking stop.

And I'm like, my God, man. It's like like midnight shit.

I'm gonna go. But I know.

So there's ADLC for the SD among us.

Shit, right? Let me tell you.

Oh, did you get it? Yeah.

Oh God. Let me tell you how powerful I

got now, do you? I don't have any of the DLC, I

just have base OK, so I don't know any reference, OK.

I'm like, I'm not the biggest fan of Among Us, so whatever,

But I say if anything, if you were to get ADLC, get that one.

And the reason why I say that is the different characters.

They are so fucking overpowered that.

This is just the crew, right? Yes.

Oh my God, like because I was playing on the level for it and

I got so fucking powerful nothing could touch me.

And I don't know if you know this, but there is a time limit

on the game after. I think it's like 40 minutes.

Most levels of 30. Or 30 the Grim Reaper comes,

kills you instantly and you and you and you win.

You, you win. But that was the first time that

ever happened to me, 'cause I'm like, what the fuck, 'cause it

just randomly comes out of just random like, and you know, you

know, they are good characters. As much as I, like I said, I'm

not a big fan of Among Us. You have dude.

And some of the items you can get are just stupid.

They are so dumb, but they're so good.

Like I think there's the one that's the tongue.

What the fuck? That like it just it fucking.

Murders. I was having the time of my

fucking life, dude. That is one of these ruglike

games that I just I I fucking adore it.

I do I. Yeah, it's a pretty good one.

It spawned so many clones. Yes, it did.

And. So many.

And it's not like it was a unique genre.

It wasn't the first thing to do it's thing.

It was just it's presence. It yes, and nothing has come

close to it as far as I know Like I they I guess I'm biased

when it comes to this game, but because at first I didn't really

like it, right, because the way that it played, you know, you're

just controlling the character. You're not attacking.

Yeah, you're not controlling. The it's an auto auto battler.

And I didn't, I'm like, what the fuck?

This is weird. But then I'm like, no, no, I'll

give it a chance. And I gave it a chance and it

was probably the best decision I ever did.

I. So it was the best chance I ever

gave. And it also can get pretty

fucking hard. It can no.

It is scary when you're starting off and it's like, okay, this is

nice, just some enemies and then all of a sudden fucking hell

race and all of these enemies. What's funny is that the enemies

can chase change per minute basis.

Yes. So you can have like a bunch of

skeletons and I'm talking a metric fuck ton of skeletons

coming at you from all side. You can barely.

There's barely enough wiggle room to move.

Yep. And then once you know you reach

the 18th minute they're all gone.

But now it's like giant golfs. Or some or something.

Yeah, now it's like giant golems or plants or like a lot less but

tougher enemies, yes. And I say.

Health wise. One of my favorite items in the

game so far from playing is the garlic.

Really the garlic if you can keep upgrading it, yeah.

The range gets so fucking huge that nothing can like granted

your damage is not too bad because that your damage you

need it to. Be yeah, it can kill the basic

enemy. It's pretty the low health

enemies pretty easily. And they and it honestly it if

you can get it pretty high up and like your your damage.

And then the garlic. Oh man.

My favorite is the Bible. I like the Bible, especially if

you get the Bible upgrade and we're just constantly spinning.

Yes, yes, like constantly, like constant.

It's so fucking good. And then I behold the Ribble.

This is the Bible. Do you dare?

Do you dare question the words of the fighting shitty you?

Look at me, you tell me there's a God.

He made me in his own image. And I I also the art style for

the game being very Castlevania, you're right.

It's I've just played the I've gotten numb to the but yeah,

you're right. Because even the why I think

that is, I mean, one way it looks like it, but there's also

like the holy water. It is literally the holy water

from fucking Castlevania. Like the way it looks, yeah.

Interesting. Like I love that it looks like

that. Probably is an homage to it.

Oh, for sure. Yeah, because vamp like Vampire

survivors. The name.

Well, you're. Yeah, you're.

Simon Vampire Hunter, Yeah, you know.

Even though. I love.

How many vampires do you actually hunt in that game

though? This in a what in?

A vampire? No Vampire Survivors.

I. Think or not hunt.

But how many? How many, How many vampires do

you survive anyway? Couldn't tell you.

To me it sounds like that. Oh God, what's it called?

I don't remember the title of it, but it's a it's a Quentin

Tarantino movie. Oh, I can play.

They're all in the the strip club, and it turns out they're

all vampires. What the fuck I swear I've heard

this. Yeah, it sounds like they took

that but made it into a game a little bit.

Yeah, don't know. And then like the amount of

fucking characters you can play as, as you know, you unlock,

Yeah, because you have levels that you go through and you each

level that you're able to get through and well, the levels

have different things you need to do in order to unlock the

next level. And then I think characters I

think you find in the levels sometimes It's been a little

while since I've. Yeah.

But being like me like in Castlevania a lot and even

though I'm fucking horrible at the the NES ones, Jesus Christ

man. They're hard.

They're they're hard, but they're so good and they're

short, that's the thing. Well, yeah, artificial.

Artificial difficulty, if anything, can you say words?

If anything, play Super Castlevania 4.

Play that, like that, that that's.

I've heard 2 is not so bad. 2 is OK, it's.

One is difficult. It's.

Just two is plagued with a lot of problems.

Yeah, definitely. 3. This fruit is also not too bad.

It's not too bad. It's hard as fuck.

Oh yeah. Like to the point of it's kind

of like, why? Because I think it's more than

level design. It's kind of fucked.

But Castlevania 4 and Super Nintendo?

That's when gold was struck dear.

God. Oh yeah.

Yeah, no Vampire Survivors. You can play it on basically

anything. Yeah, even mobile, I think it's

on. Yeah, it's on mobile now.

There was a long time where it wasn't, yeah, but they were just

like, fucking just get it out because there's all these clones

popping up on mobile. Just get it out for free.

I know they, I think they were waiting to put it on mobile

because they wanted to get the, they wanted to get cross saves

together. Yeah, but that did not work out

because, yeah, a lot of clones and shit and these people are

getting fucking ripped off. It's like, OK, let's get this.

Out. Yeah, right.

You can. Stop this.

I think we can move on to the next Yeah, because Vampire, like

just overall great game. It's a great game.

I think it's even relatively cheap too if you.

Just want it's not expensive. Simple fun you.

Just play it. It's it's a lot of fun hours of

entertainment. Yeah, this one.

Then this next section is Action slash Dungeon Collar.

And they may not fit exactly these descriptions.

I just, I just try to fit them as best as I could.

But these are games like Hades, Dead Cells, which is also

another really Noida. That's a really tough one

because you have to figure out everything yourself as you play

like, oh, what's this dies? Oh, not doing that again.

No, it's one of. Those, yeah, OK, that would be.

For me. I played one like that, it was

not fun. Another, another one that's like

this just had it on my mind. Oh well, whatever.

But yeah, Hades. I played that for for a hot

minute. That one's pretty fun.

I can't, I can't remember which, which weapon was my favorite.

Maybe the sword? I think there's a size.

Size. I don't know.

There was like 5 weapons. There's yeah, there's cuz I've

played one. I haven't played two at all.

And I have played two I don't like.

I haven't played both Hades games enough to have an opinion.

Same. But I've played two the most, so

it's it's fine. Like it's a literally a dungeon

crawler and all that shit. Yeah, and it's, it's just fun,

you know, like I said, not too much of an opinion yet.

That's what it was. Another one is Emperor Nights.

That's one I really like. It's it's just like Hades where

you go room to room fighting. Yeah.

And there's just like Hades. There's multiple doors that you

can pick from to fight or for different rewards.

But yeah, going to Dead Cells. I'm not sure if you guys have

played this or seen it. This one's hard as shit.

There's five difficulty levels that you only get by defeating,

I think the King of the Throne. OK, but you have to like, I

think you have to kill the bodyguard and then kill the king

of the throne. And then that's when you beat

the game. But you also have to go through

all these different areas and even kind of like Robo Quest,

there's different areas you can go to depending on which path

you take. OK, but you need different

abilities like you need, you need to find runes within these

levels, unlock different abilities.

Like there's an ability where you can detach your head.

Your body will remain an entity, but that yeah, then you can like

slime around as your head, which that's weird.

If you if you see the initial animation, you are the head that

took over a body. Oh, OK, I.

See, that's why you never die. Because once you die, you just

go back to the beginning. You slip down into the prison.

Find new body. Yeah, find new body, get that,

take that over, but. OK.

Or there's an upgrade where you can slam down, but there might

be like a cross path and a safe area where you can slam down to

get through, but you don't have that upgrade yet.

So there's a path that you just can't take.

So you kind of railroaded across this web of areas into one kind

of like Robo Quest where you can only go to the Oasis, then to

fields and to Energy Center instead of going to Aqua Station

or ruins Slash. I found Corey, but I I only beat

this game once. That's how hard this game is 0.

God. I'm pretty sure I think I have

it in my my steam library. It's.

I've only heard of this game so. I mean, like there's, there's a,

there's a bunch of different like weapons and even like you

can get traps that help you too, because like you can find

scrolls that increase one of three things like vitality,

dexterity and something else. But basically what it means is

red, green, purple. What do you want to upgrade?

What color? And different, different items

come in different colors. OK, so let's say you upgrade

vitality, which is red. So you want to focus on getting

those red items, Yeah. But there also might be splits,

like there might be a red purple.

So you can go either way. And you can be fine with, let's

say, a trap that's red purple. So if you get red or purple,

whichever 1 is greater, it'll focus on that color.

Yeah. And you kind of want to, like

build around that because then you only get so many scrolls and

you can find the exit immediately.

But it also might be better to explore around as well, so you

can find those scrolls or those weapons or traps, whatever else.

And sometimes a weapon can take up two slots.

I think there's one for when you beat the game, you unlock a

weapon that takes up two slots. But yeah, now this.

And there's only 5 difficulty levels actually I think 6

because it goes up to like 012345, but it gets stupid.

Like I think level 1 is your potion only heals so much.

Level 2 is like, oh there's a chance that the giant potion at

the end of an area will be full and you can refill your personal

potion. And then it goes all the way up

to pretty much you just have your potion, like the one you

start off with, you just have your potion, you can't refill

it, that's it. And that's like where the a lot

of roguelikes have that or you crank up the difficulty and you

get more and more drawbacks. Yes, that's just how the

difficulty is. And then Noida Noisa, however

you say it, you it's just a pixel art game.

And there's like pretty much this is one of the pixel art

games where every pixel matters literally every, because there

could be, there could be one pixel of like teleprotanium, I

think that's what it's called. And you could be teleported into

a wall and instantly die. Oh, God.

Just because yeah. Or you can like transform into a

sheep and now you're defenseless and then an enemy kills you.

But you can also it's you can also cover yourself in in

liquids. You can cover yourself in oil,

which if you get caught on fire, good luck.

Or you can cover yourself in water.

There's also like poison, there's blood.

I think oil actually even makes you like slidy too around this

area. Makes sense?

But there might be like an A spot where you that you come

across where it's just an ocean of lava to the left, to the

right. And at first you're like, well,

I don't have anything that I can do with this.

And I need like an upgrade that makes me immune to lava.

But I don't think there is one. There's immunity to fire, but I

don't think there's lava, which will still damage you.

But then you come to find out that because there's a lot of

this, this game is literally fuck around.

Find out. And you I, I found this out

recently just because I accidentally clicked my mouse

and you start off with a random potion and this most of the time

it's water and it has like a certain usage, but you can douse

yourself it in this water if you're on fire to put you out,

you can use that water on the lava to make a walkable surface

and you can get across that. I thought I needed an upgrade to

get past it, no? It's like Minecraft, basically.

Yeah, to make to make Obsidian. But like there's just there's

just all these different areas and you have wands that have

like a certain amount of slots or a certain amount of mana or

MP, whatever. And then you have spells which

use a certain amount of MP and you can create some crazy, crazy

wands in this game if you get far enough.

I have never gotten that far, but if you get if you look at

videos, it can get really stupid.

It's just yeah, I know. It's just, I can't really say

much because it's just I'm not good at it.

I'm not. There's one that I just thought

of. Go for it.

I need to play it a little bit more, but you've probably Ethan,

you've seen me play it, or at least seen like on Steam that

I'm playing it. It was Voin VOIN.

It sounds familiar, I might have just from you.

So that is, again, it's a rogue like you're this knight that

seems to have been sent back by his creator of I don't know if

it's for vengeance or something. It's been a little while since

I've seen the story. But the gameplay, it's a first

person. Basically you, like I said

before a night that you go and kill enemies and whatnot and go

through like these huge open world levels.

And there recently there was a pretty big update for it.

But the art style is really nice.

It's kind of like that doom esque like look, because it's

all like medieval, like gothic kind of kind of shit.

And I mean you again with this game, if you die, I actually, I

guess this would be more of a rogue light than a rogue like

because you can upgrade yourself and you can upgrade your weapons

and shit. But when you're killing enemies,

you get these like pieces of like it looks like flesh and

shit as collectibles that you use to upgrade your stuff.

If you die, you drop all of that and you have to go get it before

it disappears. It becomes this big ass mesh

thing that you got whack. Oh boy.

But besides that, it's still an early access game on steam.

But like had a update recently and he's adding like more

levels. I think this is one person

that's made this game OK and it's respectable.

Pretty, it's pretty fun. It has its issues but I mean.

You're gonna have it if you got a one person development team,

right? But let me tell you, for one

fucking person making this game applauds.

Yeah, because it's not even. It's really not even buggy.

That's wild to me. And this is the third person or

first person? Yeah, first person world.

Yeah. Jesus, that's great.

What are other companies doing? Wrong, but that's my tangent,

yeah. Gotcha.

What was that game we were playing the other night where it

was kind of like you move in time advances for the rest of

the game and you have to upgrade yourself to prepare for the boss

to come? OK.

So that's he is coming. I was going to bring that up in

the next section that what would that be?

That would be probably Jack Builder if I really had to put

it. Really.

Wanted to stress it. Yeah, because as you start off

as a person with just, I think literally a stick, which does

one damage and then 10 health, 0 armor, I think 0 speed, maybe 1

can't. I think it's zero and four open

slots. You can walk around and you can

take on various enemies like a hound or a bear, a spider bat,

parrot, something that steals money.

Oh, Raven, that's what it is. Every time they hit and you're

every every five spaces you move, a time of day goes by.

I think there's like there's six for night, I think maybe 910 for

day. I couldn't exactly say.

And you have three day night cycles to go around collect

items 'cause there's chests, there's jewelry boxes, there's

like shopkeeps, like wishing wells, fairies, a whole bunch of

stuff to basically find items to get yourself a build.

And you kind of want to try to build for the boss.

Like for example the bear boss, it ignores all armor.

So there's items where you get exposed, meaning when you lose

all your armor something happens and then wounded, which once you

hit 50% health, something else happens.

So if you have any, if you have like all your items are exposed

and you're fighting the bear boss, they're not going to proc

because their attacks go through Shields.

So good luck. She basically fucked.

Yeah, but so, so that's what I mean by you kind of want to

build towards the boss 'cause there's another boss that's like

Redwood or no Elderwood Triant, I think, where every time

they're hit they take three additional damage, like as a

separate thing. So there's a weapon called Bomb

on a stick where it deals one damage and then on hit deal one

damage. So you'll deal damage, deal

another damage, and then you'll deal 3 twice because you hit

them twice, Yes. But then you also have items

where, oh, at the start of battle, deal one damage 2 times.

So now against that boss, you've already dealt 8 damage and it

has like 50 or so. But yeah, pretty much.

I think you also have, yeah, you have two bosses to go through.

And then at that, after the third boss, you have he, he is,

which is coming, which is a lesson.

Oh, so when I, when I was watching, you were on the final

book. Yeah.

Oh, I was like, oh, OK then. But that's just the forest, and

that has a completely different item set from the swamp.

OK, I've tried playing the swamp.

Oh my God, brother, it is hard. It is harder.

The item, it's a completely different item set and it makes

no sense to my brain. I still have to go on there and,

you know, dig up the balls to try it again.

Yeah, there's just, again, this is just a trend that I've

noticed in the past year or two where just more and more rogue

lakes are popping up. And this, this is like we're

reaching the point of UN like unthought of territories for

rogue lakes, where we're getting into sports rogue lakes and just

even even like Pachinko rogue lake.

It's not. Who the fuck thinks of these

ideas? I must say, yeah, let's put.

Rogue like and together and boom.

Or like a a chess rogue like. There's is a snake rogue like,

not rogue like, but there's there's a there's a snake game

out there. It's called snake Romantal.

You you guys see me? Play.

Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, like maybe, maybe not a

rogue like, but still like we're just hitting what is the most

niche thing I can think of and slap it with another genre.

Rogue like Mickey Mouse. Shit like rogue like

minesweeper. I think that is a thing

actually. I was gonna say I that actually

could. Work, I think.

Yeah, that could work. I think that's out there.

Oh, that's funny. Hell, there's rogue like chess.

Yeah. I mean, there is Shotgun King,

but I'm not. There's also Uroboros King,

which is completely different. Yeah.

That is weird. Yeah.

What the fuck? But there's also luck.

Be a landlord. That's a that's a slots Rd.

Lake, OH. God really like slot machines.

Yes, right. Jesus Christ gambling now?

Or is this what we're doing? Gambling.

I mean, look at Bilatro, that's a that is that's a very popular

one, yes, I mean kind of tied to gambling, but it's poker, it's

poker, it's. It's a type of poker.

That yeah, it's not gambling, but no in in that sense, but

you're you're playing poker hands to get score and you have

score and multiplier and they can get to insane yes numbers

and yeah. It's it's a whole thing.

There's a whole bunch of rollings out there.

I'd. I'd be hard pressed to say that

anybody out there in the world couldn't find one that they

didn't like. Even you, Mark.

Yeah. I mean, you like, you like

potato and you don't play but like.

Bitch. I wanna say you're basic.

I said that's that is not I don't think.

That that is not basic. There's so many ways to play

that game. That is a like.

Now, if you're playing I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm Anemone.

Yeah. Antra.

Antra. OK.

Close to newer I. Think I think you just had a

stroke. It's finally happening.

The stupid is rubbing off on him.

But do you guys have any final questions or anything from a non

rogue like or as much of A non? It's interesting to get more of

a deep dive and into understanding what Roblox

actually are. Yeah, it's just.

It's very, it's very interesting having an outsider's

perspective, just kind of seeing the breadth that this genre

actually can curtail. And the different types.

Because like at the end of the day, what a roguelike is, is you

are given RNG. You have to work with what the

RNG gives. You are working with the RNG to

make something work. Yep, more often than not in

these rogue lakes, there is a path to victory.

Yes. Some of them are just asinine.

They are. Some are.

Some are just harder than others.

But more often not, there is a path to victory.

Yeah, you just got to work with what you get.

Yeah. And if it doesn't work, well,

then you try again. Right.

And some of these rogue lakes, they can take minutes per run,

so it's like you're right back in.

Yeah, you haven't. Like, really?

Lost he is coming. That's a very fast one,

especially if you put it the fastest difficulty.

And I forgot there's an option where you can even skip battles

outright. Be like, I know I'm gonna win

this fight if I go up to this bear.

That's interesting. So I might as well just press

control, at least on the key keyboard and mouse, press

control and just skip it. OK, I can walk up to it, but I

was big. You gotta, you gotta go.

You gotta go. Goodbye.

Yeah. You got a goal.

You lost to health. Good job, here's a sticker.

But for me, I don't really have anything.

No, no, Nope. I think I'm good too now.

I think I think that is it for this episode then thank you for

coming with me with through the 10th episode.

If you guys have any questions or any topics you want to say,

just put it into the at least. I know Spotify has comments but

I'm not sure how other places do it but find a way where you can

reach us and put in your words. Yeah, words man.

Just type words. We'd love to.

Just words, yeah. Thoughts.

That's the word. Yeah, yeah.

Thoughts on like? Really anything?

Yeah, pretty much anything gamer related.

Yeah, and we also have a Twitter and a blue sky, so you can also

ask questions there if you're so inclined.

I'm not sure. It's a simple search.

Yep. To find us, Yep.

But yeah, I think that'll be it for us today.

I think so too. Alright guys are now free to

unplug. Bye everybody.

The Story